Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 37783932; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 03:01:30 -0800 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS, SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=ham version=3.1.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.5 (2006-08-29) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #1010 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 03:00:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #1010 1. Re: Fire Proccedure\Botched Emergency Handling by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 2. Re: "Art" by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 3. Re: D. Adams. was MSDS as MSDAS ( a typo) by Jerry Durand 4. Re: Fire Proccedure\Botched Emergency Handling by Bruce Purdy 5. Re: What is Art? (was: RE: MSDS as MSDAS ( a typo) by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 6. Re: NEC grounding (Earth) questions by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 7. Re: NEC grounding (Earth) questions by Charlie Richmond 8. Re: Follow up on burnt hand... by "RD" 9. Re: D. Adams by CB 10. Re: construction sites by CB 11. Re: British Backboxes by CB 12. Re: Follow up on burnt hand... by CB 13. Re: British Backboxes by Charlie Richmond 14. Re: D. Adams. and a philosophic turn by Rigger 15. Re: Fire Proccedure\Botched Emergency Handling by Dale farmer 16. Re: Fire Procedure by Dale farmer 17. Re: D. Adams. and a philosophic turn by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 18. Re: Follow up on burnt hand... by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:00:37 EST Subject: Re: Fire Proccedure\Botched Emergency Handling In a message dated 06/11/06 19:31:37 GMT Standard Time, doomster [at] worldnet.att.net writes: > There are no false alarms. Absolutely, absolutely! Glitchy or not, when that > alarm goes off, evacuate. I can hear all the hullabaloo about again and > again, but alarms were installed for a purpose, and need to be fully > operational at all times. The Show does not have to go on. Not really true. We have all met false alarms, and cursed them. But, when the alarm goes off, you evacuate. No messing. Apart from pre-announced tests, of course. It is just your horrible luck if there's a real alarm at that moment. That said, alarms have to be reliable. They need to detect real problems only. I myself am a strong advocate of rate-of-rise detectors, as I believe them to be more trustworthy than smoke detectors. But they are more complicated and expensive. They also have to be set to appropriate thresholds. Someone, such as me, who walks into an alarmed area smoking a small cigar should not trigger them. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:05:17 EST Subject: Re: "Art" In a message dated 06/11/06 19:37:34 GMT Standard Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > Look, I'm not saying that there aren't a whole lot of idiots in the 'art' > world, and a whole lot of poseurs and scammers, I'm talking about real live > Art. With a capital 'A'. Yes, but can you define it? I think I share your view. Pickled sheep and unmade beds are not art, by me. But what is? Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:04:55 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: D. Adams. was MSDS as MSDAS ( a typo) In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061106150404.01f74f38 [at] interstellar.com> References:

Just to add to all the D. Adams stuff, I just received the following from Mentor Graphics (is it something in the air?)... >"Hitchhiker's Guide to Verification Seminar" is a five segment >recorded presentation where you'll discover how the right >verification methodology can ultimately be the key to >understanding and productivity between your design, verification, >software and systems teams. More efficient than a fleet of Vogons >building a hyperspace bypass, The Hitchhiker's Guide to >Verification will teach you everything you need to know to apply >the latest verification techniques to solve your most pressing >problems. To view the Guide, go to: >http://www.mentor.com/supportnet/member/tutorials/tutorial.cfm?movie=10277&snw_source=CAMP125 -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <6F20E3F7-78A7-4B4E-93B2-C96A8FDEBAE0 [at] rochester.rr.com> From: Bruce Purdy Subject: Re: Fire Proccedure\Botched Emergency Handling Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:16:11 -0500 >> Getting a crowd of unruly kids who have been drinking to exit in >> an orderly fashion would be, >> I expect, a joke. > > Usually the headliners lead singer (or guitarist, depending on who > has more > hair) is a really good liason between your staff and their fans. > Having an > 'authority figure' tell them what to do sucks, dude, but having > thier idol > tell them how to be cool works nearly every time. Enlist the band. I suppose in some instances that might work. Whilst not a fire, and no alarm involved, the following incident tends to colour my views: A couple of winters ago, we hosted an up and coming Rap group. 1400 (Capacity) screaming and rowdy kids, half of them standing and trying to crowd the stage. Security behind the barricades was doing their best to maintain SOME order, but it was a loosing game. Two opening acts had performed, and the "Name" act that they had come to see was getting ready to take the stage, but were stalling to build suspense. The crowd was almost out of control. Just as they were walking on, the power went out - NO sound, and NO lights except for the emergency lights! The performers stayed out of sight in the wings then headed to their tour bus to hide. Meanwhile, there was much disagreement as to what to do next - there was no fire alarm, so do we need to evacuate immediately, or give it a few minutes to see if the lights come back on. (It turned out the blackout lasted three days - major ice storm) After a few minutes the promoter (Liaison from the college that had rented our hall) tried to address the crowd. The intended message was: "When you leave here, please go to the campus Gym, where we will handle refunds". With no sound system available (We bought a bullhorn the following week), the promoter stood on top of a speaker stack, and under the light of a couple flashlights, started: "When you leave here..." he was interrupted by some idiot yelling "We want our money back!" and the ensuing yelling and screaming of the crowd, so no one could hear ANYTHING the promoter said. When he finally got everyone to quiet down again, he once again started: "When you leave here..." and he was again interrupted by "We want our money back!" and the screaming and yelling. the cycle repeated itself for half an hour! When they finally did leave, there was vandalism done to the building, and some gear stolen from the truck that was being loaded in the dark. Based on my experience with this crowd, I have a hard time believing that they would evacuate in any kind of an orderly manner if the fire alarm had been going off! > >> how do you separate those that have bought >> tickets from those who have been hanging around outside? > > Uhm, they have ticket stubs? Just a guess. Ticket stubs?? Oh you mean those things that were thrown into the trash or dropped on the floor the moment they entered the Theatre?? Once they are in the doors, I doubt if even a handful of them thought "I ought to hang on to this in case we have to evacuate". I'm glad I wasn't there on campus when they were dealing with refunds! Bruce ____________________ Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:16:31 EST Subject: Re: What is Art? (was: RE: MSDS as MSDAS ( a typo) In a message dated 06/11/06 19:45:54 GMT Standard Time, chip.a.wood [at] gmail.com writes: > Before I went to the Picasso Museum in Barcelona I never appreciated > what a great technical painter he was. His early portraits are > magnificently detailed and lifelike. With this base he could then leap > to his later works that sometimes look child-like. A difficult artist. As you say, his early work was good, He showed that he understood the craft. To his later work, I should not give houseroom. Van Gogh was similar. I once went to an exhibition of his work where the paintings were set out cheronologically. It is known that he was a manic-depressive, and the paintings reflect this clearly. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:27:50 EST Subject: Re: NEC grounding (Earth) questions In a message dated 06/11/06 19:55:54 GMT Standard Time, charlier [at] RichmondSoundDesign.com writes: > That's the most bizarre and perverse variant I've ever heard. Even more > bizarre > than the BBC standard of linear faders that are off when away from the > operator. There is sense behind that. The faders also had micro-switches on board. When a fader was off zero, the foldback function was disabled. In the more formal days, it was very easy to knock a fader off zero with your cuff. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 23:51:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: NEC grounding (Earth) questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > There is sense behind that. The faders also had micro-switches on board. When > a fader was off zero, the foldback function was disabled. In the more formal > days, it was very easy to knock a fader off zero with your cuff. Of course! What wonderful logic! I will start campaigning now to change things to that standard ;-) C ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Follow up on burnt hand... Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:15:58 -0700 Message-ID: <009c01c70201$e6d637d0$6501a8c0 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: That is the usual move for an insurance company. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Nelson Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 2:59 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Follow up on burnt hand... For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- > That said, we did not go in asking them to pay for ANYTHING - but one of > the > first things they did when I walked in the door to see what the situation > was, was to hand me an insurance claim form w/o my asking. That is a wise administrative policy. Regardless of whether they did that or not, your own insurance company is likely to go after the school for any amounts that your insurance pays - or at least agree to some division of the costs. Bill ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061106173017.017f0730 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 17:30:17 From: CB Subject: Re: D. Adams >Wrong agency. NSA does most of the codebreaking (and writing) for the >whole US Gov including the CIA. Well, while I don't know that the CIA outsources their crypto needs, nor do I know for whom the NSA provides their services, the word 'whole' used here is used incorrectly. The graduates of the USAF's Crypto school at Lackland AFB don't all go to work for the NSA, sooo.... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061106174211.017f0730 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 17:42:11 From: CB Subject: Re: construction sites >in the 110-1120 degree heat of the summer Danged typos! Of course, it doesn't get to 1120 degrees in the summer in Az, it just feels that way... That should have read, '110-120'. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061106174826.017f0730 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 17:48:26 From: CB Subject: Re: British Backboxes >So I guess you ignore all my posts now, eh? Not at all, I musta just misunderstood. "Shurely shome mishtake?", might have referred to either the original decision to have them operate that way or the decision of the US electricians to deviate from the standard. Of course, it never crossed my mind that you might be referring to my information! ; > ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061106175302.017f0730 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 17:53:02 From: CB Subject: RE: Follow up on burnt hand... >They are obligated to pay ALL of it, if we demanded it, because she was >under their direction and supervision in what she was doing at the time. >That said, we did not go in asking them to pay for ANYTHING This is exactly what I thought, but the way I 'heard' it sounded a bit different. Still happy to hear thatthe kid is doingso well. I have a coupla hand injuries that are permanent, but I have to show them to people for them to notice them. Tell her that no matter what, she'll adapt just fine, and after a coupla years she'll be back to playing the piano. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 01:49:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: British Backboxes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, CB wrote: > Not at all, I musta just misunderstood. "Shurely shome mishtake?", might > have referred to either the original decision to have them operate that way > or the decision of the US electricians to deviate from the standard. Of > course, it never crossed my mind that you might be referring to my > information! ; > That's ok - I'm just giving you a hard time... C ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 21:45:25 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: D. Adams. and a philosophic turn At 12:16 PM -0500 11/6/06, CB wrote: >>Every sound tree bears good fruit, but the lighting tree bears >>evil fruit > >Am I going to hell for this? As if you weren't for anything else? -- Dave Vick 20/20 Design rigger [at] tds.net ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45501040.9040605 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 23:49:04 -0500 From: Dale farmer Subject: Re: Fire Proccedure\Botched Emergency Handling References: In-Reply-To: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 06/11/06 19:31:37 GMT Standard Time, > doomster [at] worldnet.att.net writes: > >> There are no false alarms. Absolutely, absolutely! Glitchy or not, when that >> alarm goes off, evacuate. I can hear all the hullabaloo about again and >> again, but alarms were installed for a purpose, and need to be fully >> operational at all times. The Show does not have to go on. > > Not really true. We have all met false alarms, and cursed them. But, when the > alarm goes off, you evacuate. No messing. Apart from pre-announced tests, of > course. It is just your horrible luck if there's a real alarm at that moment. > > That said, alarms have to be reliable. They need to detect real problems > only. I myself am a strong advocate of rate-of-rise detectors, as I believe them > to be more trustworthy than smoke detectors. But they are more complicated and > expensive. > > They also have to be set to appropriate thresholds. Someone, such as me, who > walks into an alarmed area smoking a small cigar should not trigger them. > > > Frank Wood > > > Correct. That should trigger a small precisely aimed sprinkler to put out the moving fire. Many years ago, I was singing with a choral group that had a policy (unusual for the time) of banning smoking in the venue before and during the performance. There were a few persistent folks who would insist on lighting up anyway. After much discussion and repeated instances of the same people lighting up their bad smelling sticks, we obtained a bunch of water pistols. (Being a high school, the school principal had a drawer full of them. ) Equipping the ushers with water pistols, we cautioned the audience during the next show that anyone caught smoking would be extinguished immediately. During the first number, we had a shill down near the front light up. All the ushers converged, pulling out their water pistols and extinguished the smoldering weed. Didn't have the problem again as long as I was associated with them. Word had gotten around... --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4550156F.4010503 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 00:11:11 -0500 From: Dale farmer Subject: Re: Fire Procedure References: In-Reply-To: RD wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > More for our files. > > I still want to put together a number of items: past and present. > > 1. A photo sequence or just specific shots of problems that illustrate most > of the major problems, incidents, etc. that we lecture about, that we find > in theaters. > 2. There should be a commentary and titles, etc. > 3. Maybe back ground music: Night on Bald Mountain? Hmn. No comments. > 4. It should be very graphic and clear, and illustrate what we have been > doing all these years. Even thought I have done a video, it is not too good, > even though it was professionally made some years ago (I never told anyone). > > 5. All types of computer stuff you know Rick that might be used to enhance > what we are doing ....zoom shots, etc. > 6. Could be turned into a CD or a HDCD so that it would hold a lot, and we > could package it. I want it to hit home and perhaps shock some > administrators into action. > 7. I know that you and I and Jay and others have pictures, and we can > enhance them to show what truly occurred. Every aspect of theater. Script, > of course. > 8. very dramatic to get the point over ....typical theater in a school, only > add all of our own pictures .... > Give me feed back .... I know we have tens of thousand of pictures, and we > need to turn them into a presentation .... > > Rigging equipment failures; ropes parting; wire rope mangled; broken arbors; > aisles blocked, etc. etc. we have all the stuff .... > 9. Take each area of the theater and illustrate it with many pictures and > comments. A long, long CD, that seems all right to me, > 10. and of course the next bit is a Health and Theater Safety CD, right, > with the positive stuff. > Well, being the repair tech for a rental shop, I get a steady parade of the aftermath of incidents. I'll try to find a cheap digicam I can keep at work to take pictures of the various oopsies. --Dale ------------------------------ From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 00:34:00 EST Subject: Re: D. Adams. and a philosophic turn In a message dated 11/6/2006 9:47:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, rigger [at] tds.net writes: CB wrote: >>Every sound tree bears good fruit, but the lighting tree bears >>evil fruit Oh sure, lighting gets blamed when sound doesn't have their grounds sorted out. ;) SteveV ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 05:43:37 GMT Subject: Re: Follow up on burnt hand... Message-Id: <20061106.214407.15735.709866 [at] webmail30.lax.untd.com> My question is: have the skin donor sites healed sufficiently so to = almost disappear? Cosmetic surgery to smooth over donor site scars is = expensive, so perhaps the bills are still coming in and the potential = for more expenses is real enough so this discussion is premature. How = noticeable are the donor sites? Is there further cosmetic work to do? /s/ Richard _________________________________ That is the usual move for an insurance company. Doom = > That said, we did not go in asking them to pay for ANYTHING - but = one of the first things they did when I walked in the door to see = what the situation was, was to hand me an insurance claim form w/o my = asking. That is a wise administrative policy. Regardless of whether they did that or not, your own insurance = company is likely to go after the school for any amounts that your = insurance pays - or at least agree to some division of the costs. Bill ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #1010 ******************************